The Caretaker

[clocketpatch]

Not a full meta, because I already know I don't particularly want to re-watch that. Did anyone else find that episode hellishly awkward? It was like getting stuck behind an arguing couple at a movie theatre. The movie's good, but so overshadowed by the awkward that you can't actually enjoy it.

I liked the cold open and would enjoy fic of how they ended up chained to pillars in the desert and how they escaped the sand piranhas afterwards

There were some very funny lines, especially in the first half. "I read the book. There's a bio in the back," made me lol, while the bit where the Doctor tells Clara that, "I used to have a teacher..." was a very touching bit of nostalgia. Ditto, the nose tweaking (Seven!), and the build-up of altron energy.

I also enjoyed Danny calling the Doctor on his shit and recognizing him for what he is. Though, there was a moment there when he first said, "Time Lord," that I wondered if the rumours about Danny being the Master pre-series might be true. The actual shit calling was far more satisfying than that, I think.

The constant soldier/PE teacher thing was not actually funny. Adrian looking like Eleven was... disturbing, and it made me want to throttle Moffat, because that gag wasn't funny in Sherlock and it is doubly not funny here, with an addition of, "why are you reusing the worst ever gag from Sherlock that was never funny?"

I didn't enjoy the fact that the Doctor must approve Clara's choices, or that the onus is being put on her. Granted, she could've been a bit less secretive, but, "I've got a platonic relationship with an alien time traveller" isn't the easiest thing to explain. Pink being her boyfriend doesn't really require explanation, and I disliked the Doctor requiring it. Dear Moffat, please stop writing Twelve as an emotionally abusive asshole. If I want that, I'll watch Sherlock. Thanks, bye.

I enjoyed The Disruptive Influence and "there is a spillage". Funny stuff. Though I think it's unfortunate casting that certain students were disruptive and being caught playing truant by police, while certain other students are grade A all the way and asking questions about Austin.

The mechanics of the conclusion, with the Doctor giving orders, Clara dodging explosions, and Danny doing oddly athletic somersaults was good.

I liked the ending with Danny and Clara on the couch. I think that's the most palatable bit of their on-screen romance so far. It was definite set-up, though. The Doctor is going to take things too far. Clara's trust will be betrayed. Bad things will happen. And they will almost certainly involve the gate-keeper of the Nethersphere.

Next week: Terrifying spiders on the moon! Hopefully that will go better.

Comments

[eve11]

I agree with all of your points, though for me the adventur-y bits and good things were enough to outweigh the clunkers of Moffat's relationship writing. I think the worst bit was the whole "Of course I recognized your boyfriend" thing; also made me roll my eyes. Especially because Clara saw how he was talking to Danny and saw him being an idiot when she and Adrian were talking, and still didn't put two and two together. That is thickness-for-the-sake-of-plot.

I think that the Doctor this time around is perhaps realizing he was a bit in love with Clara, or as evidenced here, loving the idea that she could be taken with him. (ETA: And the lines in "Deep Breath": "I'm not your boyfriend." "I didn't think you were." "I didn't say it was your mistake.") So his feelings of betrayal are relevant even if his actions upon such are frustrating. Childish behavior, when coming from adults in positions of power, is often abusive. I am baffled the sudden (this season anyhow) antipathy for soldiers.

I also think they will waste no time and that next week's episode will bring the "Doctor pushes Clara past the limit" plot point.

[clocketpatch]

Maybe I can figure out how to edit out the bits I like and make an abbridged Caretaker that's more to my taste? lol, or just watch it with my finger on the fast-forward button.

Good call on, "It wasn't your mistake," though I feel like that only makes the situation creepier, because Clara has flat out told the Doctor that their relationship is platonic and he's agreed with that. If he's continuing to see her as a girl friend and not saying, that is straight up dishonest and upsetting; especially if he's going to pair it with manipulative, controlling behaviour.

I don't mind the Doctor being a manipulative, controlling alien doing things for his own mysterious universe saving reasons, but there is a firm difference between that and him being a manipulative and controlling because he feels like a jilted boyfriend.

I don't know that it will happen next week. It feel like something that might be being saved for the finale. I'm also strongly thinking it will have something to do with Clara being forced to sacrifice an innocent, because that seems to have been what happened to Danny. That said... evil spiders on the moon eeeeeegawds. It's nightmare fuel in and of itself.

[garpu.livejournal.com]

IMO, it feels like the Doctor's pushing Clara away. She's moving on from him, I think he gets that, but doesn't want her to wind up like some of his other companions. Not that she can't travel with a boyfriend (Amy and Rory managed it, and Barbara and Ian will always be canon in my head.) But I think Clara's a different person and doesn't *need* the Doctor, like the Doctor needs her.

I'm glad Danny called the Doctor out on his privilege/rank. Glad it isn't me who thinks the Doctor is very Time Lordy this season.

We need more Courtney. I hope we get her in Big Finish audios, at the least.

[john_amend_all]

We need more Courtney

If the listings magazine with today's Telegraph is right, you're in luck.

[clocketpatch]

I think that's the effect that the Doctor's actions will eventually have, but I'm not certain that's what he's consciously doing.

Seconding the inclusion of more Courtney in the future. (and quietly squeeing about Johne's comment on that matter)

[john_amend_all]

I rewatched bits of the episode this evening -- including the trailer for next week.



Hmm.

[liadt]

Last nights episode left a bad taste in the mouth. I think Clara should bin both the Dr & Danny. She doesn't need the Dr's approval, as you say, and I didn't like Danny demanding she tell him the truth all the time from now on.

Yeah, disliked the Dr thinking the guy looking like Eleven must be Clara's bf for all sorts of reasons, meh. And in 'Sherlock' I thought it was a very nasty gag against the character(s).

The soldier = PE teacher gag was utter garbage too.

[clocketpatch]

It's doubly obnoxious, because there were some portions of that episode I really liked, but I don't know that I can stomach watching them again due to the bad stuff. It was painfully obvious, I think, that this episode was written by two people, and I'm not certain those two people were working together as well as they thought they were. this also leads to a situation, where I can't tell who wrote what, because there's some stuff in there I want to blame on Moffat, but it could just as easily be the other writer imitating Moffat for brownie points. :/

[liadt]

I felt 'The Caretaker' was a really good half hour story with some nasty bits shoved in to make it the right length.

I am being to worry the Dr is turning into Sherlock:( I think Moffat may have taken too much on doing two big shows and should concentrate on one.

[ladymercury-10.livejournal.com]

Did anyone else find that episode hellishly awkward? It was like getting stuck behind an arguing couple at a movie theatre.
That is a very good way of putting it. There were a lot of things I liked about the episode, but it was hard to focus on them with the Doctor constantly harping on how much he disliked soldiers and being aggressively rude to Danny.

Though I think it's unfortunate casting that certain students were disruptive and being caught playing truant by police
Definitely. I'm not sure if the captions on my TV were right, but I thought when he first sent Courtney away he said something about didn't she have shoplifting to go do, which, ouch. I wondered if it was a mis-caption for shop class, but I kinda doubt it.

[clocketpatch]

No, your captions were correct. to be fair, I feel like that's something Twelve might say to anyone under the age of twenty (or Ten, for that matter, "happy slappy hoodies with ASBOs," was, I think, how he put it...), but the casting connotations were... unfortunate. :/

I also feel like someone should be editing Moffat for blatant Sherlock swipes. The two shows have a large cross-viewership, and no one likes being condescended to with poorly re-packaged jokes. Especially when they were awful jokes to begin with.

[ladymercury-10.livejournal.com]

to be fair, I feel like that's something Twelve might say to anyone under the age of twenty (or Ten, for that matter, "happy slappy hoodies with ASBOs," was, I think, how he put it...), but the casting connotations were... unfortunate.
I think that's one of the recurring problems the show has, is that they assume that because the Doctor is pretty much equal-opportunity rude and condescending to everyone when he feels like it, that they don't have to consider the implications of how it will come off directed at specific people.

[mithen.livejournal.com]

I do think the Doctor rather LIKED Courtney, sensing a kindred Disruptive Influence spirit--the way he lit up at that term did make me laugh. But ugh, oh, the choices of Good and Bad students was unfortunate, and while I understand the Doctor is assuming Danny can't be a maths teacher because he's a soldier (bad enough), it came off awfully to me like judging someone as non-intellectual for racist reasons. There was a LOT of cringe-worthy stuff in this episode, and I hated having Clara be "torn" between the Doctor and Danny. They both come off quite bad because of it, although I did think the scene where Danny calls him an officer and rakes him for it was very well-done.

[a-phoenixdragon.livejournal.com]

I think I'm the only one tweaked about Danny calling him on his shit. Not that he got called on it, but the tone, the snap judgement kinda tweaked me. Though the Doctor being a dickhead...yeah, that didn't help. Danny tolerated that a little too long, but I would have liked him to call the Doctor out a little sooner. But the 'Time Lord' thing really got me. I think that's what tweaked me, really.

I don't feel Clara needs to have the Doctor's approval, but I do know he's been asking if she had a boyfriend, how did the date go, yadda-yadda and she has done nothing but dodge and lie, so I can see where he thought she assumed he wouldn't approve and so automatically, he wouldn't and really that whole mess was Clara's fault. Just the sneaky way she got Danny on the TARDIS spoke volumes for me. The soldier and knee-jerk assholish response to them should have been addressed LONG ago, but she never bothered to. And she lied all throughout Listen which I knew would come back and bite her in the ass.

I like Danny, I think he's awesome. And I think he and the Doctor would get along if they didn't have preset friction going. I did love the nostalgic references, but not the emotional abuse going around. From the Doctor, from Clara...and even from Danny. I did not like that conversation at the end. An ultimatum without (really) a broader perspective on the Doctor himself. I really wish those two would have a date forfucksake...

Meh. Other than the awkward and angry, this was a decent enough episode. But I already know the things I disliked no one else did and the things I LIKED very few others did...I'm just really pissed at Clara right now.

*Crawls back under Rock*

[clocketpatch]

I think we can agree that everyone's just kind awful to each other in this and the end result is awkward as all get out. But the good parts are very good, unfortunately, for me, they weren't enough to save it.

I don't get why Twelve is being written as so abusive and controlling. I also don't get why Clara is being written as stupid and secretive (and stupid about her secretiveness!) unless it's meant as a response to the above.

The only one actually acting vaguely healthy in this Danny, but he's only sort of vaguely waving at the concept.

It is frustrating in the extreme.

I think that the Time Lord thing was more about Danny's own back story than about who the Doctor is. Danny is a poor kid who grew up to be a solider and obviously had an unpleasant experience with someone he respected tricking him into doing something he didn't want to do. Quite possibly because he thought that said office was some how "better" than him for not being a poor black kid who grew up in a children's home. He sees the Doctor and how he's acting with Clara, and how Clara respects and makes excuses for, he hears the Doctor being called a "Lord", and he jumps to his own conclusions. Which are IMHO not on the mark, but not completely off it either.

I feel like more of the Doctor's origins will probably be explored this series, and that Danny and the Doctor will at some point come to the realization of how very similar they bother are.

[a-phoenixdragon.livejournal.com]

Gods, yes. Rather than picking through all the awkward and awful to fingerpoint who was worse. They were all terrible and no, the good stuff wasn't enough to save it. Meh.

I don't know why he's being written that way either. This episode was especially bad. But I do understand some of his issues (prior to this episode) and how he reponds to them...(and I think it is because Clara is so secretive and stupid with it). So he becomes a dick, she gets dumber and more secretive and he ups the asshole. Gods. And this all started with an awkward regeneration that neither handled well. At least the Doctor had somewhat of an excuse. But then, they just...feed each other and it makes it seem almost like Clara should have left a while back - and I hate that. From the little romp with courtney, methinks the Doctor has reached the conclusion that it will happen sooner rather than later. I do understand his hurt in many ways though. He has asked and asked and done everything the way he SHOULD. And she kept lying. When did this tendency come into play?! Is she trying to be the Doctor FOR him? Cause if so, she sucks at it.

Right?! So kudos to Mr Pink there. Still. Shoulda dug in his heels at being snuck into the TARDIS (though really, who can resist being invisible!?!?!?)

Ohhh, I definitely got that feeling. I think that's what frustrates me. They are both intelligent men. They are both reasoning men. And they are both men with issues. They should have stopped, taken a breath, introduced each other and stopped with the assumptions. As for the assumption that Clara was dating the bowtie wearing teacher...well...arrogance (BOWTIES) and how the guy rushed up to talk to her -

Let's say I can see where the Doctor thought he had that one. I didn't think he looked so much like Eleven (though the parallel was there), I just think it was the timing, the interaction and the fact the Doctor 'figured out' she was dating someone at the school and jumped to a conclusion.

There was a lot of conclusio jumping in this episode. Which is yes, frustrating.

I think if he and Danny had that date I proposed, they would find common ground and get along great. Clara is...a friction point. Danny sees the excuses and lies, the Doctor sees the dodging (and assumptions being made FOR him) and the lies...so really, this was coming no matter what. Danny was right, yet he was wrong. The Doctor only had room to feel slighted because it was in his home, his safe-place...and Clara broke that trust, too. No wonder the TARDIS doesn't like her! It wasn't what she did/was during Eleven's time...it was THIS time. With Twelve. Old Girl was reacting to future events (at least in my little wading pool, this is how I choose to see it).

I hope so. I would love to see and hear more about the Doctor and his home and his time there. There was some exploration during Classic, but not enough, really. And I would love for the Doctor and Danny to find that commonality that unites them, you know?

*HUGS*

[lycoris.livejournal.com]

I watched this episode while really tipsy which I think was optimal viewing conditions - it mattered very little to me because it was just sort of happening. I agree absolutely though, it was so awkward. I like there to be friction between the Doctor and people (I'm loving Twelve and his rudeness most of the time!) but there's a difference between friction and really angry nasty fights and I think that's the mistake Doctor Who has made before (I love Six but sometimes the exchanges between him and Peri were horrid)